If you repeat often enough that everything must be looked at through skin colour and genitalia, dont be surprised when people take you at your word. So when you remove the biggest drivers of #GenderPayGap (children/part time work) the earnings gap all but vanishes (and in some studies lesbians earn 42% more than straight women). This shows that its not just agreeableness but also shyness that may be playing a role in the gender pay gap. **As always, should we become aware that Jordan has changed (or added to) his opinion or should new evidence be submitted that we have either misconstrued his opinion or failed to include important statements from him, we will 1) make the correction, 2) note the correction here, 3) issue a mea culpa that attempts to explain and improve on how we missed this. Would the differences between men and women be larger or smaller in wealthier countries? The IAT in particular is just a bad place to start, and your article is a very good demonstration of that. I think he is describing health care. This is in keeping with their proclivity, also documented cross-culturally, to manifest higher rates of violence and antisocial or criminal behavior, such that incarceration rates for men vs women approximate 15:1. The violent reaction to Peterson, and to Shapiro and others with conservative values establishes who defends civilization and who would tear it down. Jordan Peterson's view on the gender pay gap is that it's real and it's the consequence of many different variables. https://goo.gl/GdFFoa But it was a mistake of unforgivable magnitude and here are some of the reasons why: Given that only 26% of the elected MPs were women, the selection of half the cabinet from this pool means that it is a statistical certainty that the cabinet members chosen were not the most competent available. Over the last few weeks, I have been in Oslo, twice; Helsinki, twice; Stockholm, twice; and Copenhagen, once. In an interview with Channel 4's Cathy Newman, Jordan Peterson said these. Engineering is all about cooperation, collaboration and empathy for colleagues and customers. In Stockholm, I concentrated more on what has come to be known as the gender paradox. Here is the paradox in a nutshell: as societies become more gender-equal in their social and political policies, men and women become more different in certain aspects, rather than more similar. So, this is the Scandinavian conundrumone that also affects broader Western society (and the remainder of the world, soon enough). However, thats not exactly what he said and, as he never tires of telling us, hes, Now hes making both a statistical and conceptual point that might sound circular but its fundamental to understanding most social science claims. The opposite is not true, and has never proven to be true, and is largely unsupportable. countries. Eradicating the pay gap could work against womens true interests, he says, by interfering with their preferred choices, such as less demanding careers. In objection to Zunger, engineering isnt all about cooperation, collaboration and empathy for colleagues and customers. You have been found out. By selecting 50% of his cabinet from 26% of the pool of available candidates, Prime Minister Trudeau abdicated his responsibility to rank-order all of his elected officials by competence (which could have been done by blind, multi-person rating of their resumes, including education and accomplishments) and staffing his cabinet from the most qualified person downward. . In. Now hes making both a statistical and conceptual point that might sound circular but its fundamental to understanding most social science claims. In short, he is saying that correlation does not mean causali. John, author here. To take up Petersons example, its true that engineering is dominated by men. Men are less agreeable (more competitive, harsher, tough-minded, skeptical, unsympathetic, critically-minded, independent, stubborn). Doesnt a fractured society also result though from one group of people always being favoured over another? One of the first things I (and, I'm sure, he) noticed after about a month is that John is always at his desk, but I am not. This article provided no such evidence (even some kind of evidence), just comments from people that get paid to assume the contrary conclusion to Peterson. To close their pay gaps, companies should ensure women are on shortlists for senior roles, be transparent about pay and promotions, and encourage men to take shared parental leave, according to government guidance. Still not convinced, the program went so far as to suggest that those oppose such legislation (clearly referring to Peterson) are "threatened " by it. Empathy has no place in engineering. Mr. Peterson is a celebrity in the men's rights community, a loose collection of activists who feel men have been subjugated or betrayed by social progress. | jordan peterson t.co 3ydqbsuaeh". They have wildly different sexual psychologies that lead to different choices, both in love and in work. Zunger adds: Engineering is all about cooperation, collaboration and empathy for colleagues and customers. "Women are more interested in people, while men are more interested in things. Gender pay gap closes by one fifth after reporting introduced Fri 26 Mar 2021 The gender pay gap is closing - this research shows that making employers accountable for their pay gaps can result in significant changes to pay. Two arguments that Jordan puts on the table to explain the gender pay gap are as follows: Women are more attracted to jobs that generally pay less than jobs that attract men (teachers vs engineers). Danielle Brown, Googles vice president of diversity, rejects Damores incorrect assumptions about gender andconfidently asserts Googles commitment to its employee policies: Diversity and inclusion are a fundamental part of our values and the culture we continue to cultivate. In the paper, the researchers found that the best orchestras are those that are conducted with blind auditions. Increasing globalisation means more co-operation.. While most men do not enter these fields either, far more men than women do. But they are importantly different. The possibility of identifying a competent person increases as the pool of available candidates increases. Engineers, for example, tend to be those who are not only interested in things, but who are more interested in things than most people, men or women. Peterson ascribes this gender imbalance to innate differences between men and women. They were the ones sent packing. Why is this even a controversy? Equality is a dishonest notion because those who use it do so to deliberately avoid distinguishing between equality of outcome (which is their real objective) and equality of opportunity, which is what normal, sensible reasonable people support. Hes being vilified along with Peterson and together they are being held up as the faces of the enemy. Other factors include womens tendency for neuroticism their likelihood to experience stress, depression and unpredictability and their high level of agreeableness, to be cooperative and compassionate. These are not small-scale studies (heres another, equally recent). I (a man) went for a job in HR in the Health Service. Are they betraying their true nature? See below for a distribution chart comparing agreeableness scores of men compared to women. As one commenter (Peter Wright) on this thread says Peterson acknowledges. Hmm, the deafening silence . Privacy policy Peterson would be a better model for HR- take responsibility, tell the truth and say no to Marxism. (There is an extensive but by no means complete listing of papers relevant to this issue at the site of my interview with James Damore, the Google engineer who was fired for possessing accurate knowledge of the psychological literature). First, men and women are more similar than they are different. He adds that objective data shows there are very few differences between men and women in terms of the roles they can fulfil. He discusses the pay gap, patriarchy and his new book " 12 Rules for Life ." Subscribe: http://bit.ly/2mFYm8e. Gender equality has been a hot topic in recent years, with many people advocating for equal pay and opportunities for women in the workplace. He says:The HR equity people are mucking about with peoples unconscious bias. He adds that the abilities and choices of men and women differed in part because of biology and this was why we dont see equal representation of women in tech and leadership. // . We arranged relatively smaller venues for the lectures in those Scandinavian towns, and they sold out immediately. First, if the critics are claiming that the 80% number means that when men and women with the exact same skills and experience and preferences do the exact same work that women get paid 80 cents for every dollar men do, they are wrong. Form follows function, function rules. Jordan peterson debate on the gender pay gap, campus protests and from www.channel4.com. According to Rob Briner, professor of organisational psychology at Queen Mary University of London, Peterson makes several points that HR leaders should heed. Jordan Peterson debate on the gender pay gap, campus protests and postmodernism Hey everyone! The conservative commentator has changed his tone recently about the de-criminilzation of Marijuana. He also works for a national newspaper and is the author of KentWalksNearLondon. Why advertise with us? See https://www.chronicle.com/article/Can-We-Really-Measure-Implicit/238807 He would suggest that the IAT, the election of Trump, and the not only the differences in employment choices in Scandinavia, but also the relatively small number of women looking to take leadership positions in politics in those countries, are the result of what happens when the playing field is leveled through societal constructs. When both full and part-time employees are included in the calculation, the gender pay gap widens after the age of 30. Its actually a fatal problem, for a particular political view. It depends what you mean by "controlled". Women do choose to have children, and many will reduce their hours when they do. How to reduce unconscious bias in recruiting, In other words, Peterson and Damore are simply arguing against change. } Basically if you change the name on the application form you change the outcome.. After working for decades as a clinical psychologist and a professor at Harvard and the University of Toronto, Peterson has become one of the world's most influential public intellectuals. Jordan petersons books:12 rules for life: an antidote to chaos amzn.to 2yqv50ymaps of meaning: the architecture of belief amzn.to 3az6u0m. The most recent study, published in Science (by researchers at Berkeley, hardly a hotbed of conservatism and patriarchy) showed a relationship between a wealth/egalitarian composite measure and sex differences that was larger than that reported in 99% of published social science studies. Contact us window.mc4wp = window.mc4wp || { https://goo.gl/smtUHY https://goo.gl/FX1miP The Canadian psychologist Jordan Peterson received considerable attention when he visited Stockholm recently. What about men who want a better work/life balance, of whom there are millions? Watch "Prime Time with Alex Stein" LIVE Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and Thursdays at 6pm CT/7pm ET: @PrimeTimeAlexStein Good thing we have people like her in the world to set the record straight. Something approaching a consensus among psychologists expert in measurement, known as psychometricians (or, less technically, as personality psychologists). Damore is indeed a scapegoat. CONTROVERSIAL clinical psychologist Jordan Peterson claimed the gender pay gap is "unsolvable" and "deadly" in a 60 Minutes interview. The core of engineering is designing things to function under constraints observed in the world. The result being that differences are exacerbated. They experience more anxiety, emotional pain, frustration, grief, self-conscious doubt and disappointment (something in keeping with their proclivity to experience depression at twice the rate of men). Why dont you accurately relay his ideas to your readers rather than making him out to be a monster. Women who have decided for a better work/life balance should realise that the payoff is just that; a better work/life balance, which is more valuable that the small financial price that is paid. He says the concept of race based on skin colour was developed in the West for the purpose of justifying the slave trade, so there is nothing natural about such bias, which Peterson implies when he talks about peoples preference for their inas opposed to outgroup and novelty aversion. Engineering is not all about empathy, cooperation, etc. Some projects will be collaborative. Are the differences bigger in some countries and smaller in others? A whole bunch of equity industry participants complain that hes too persuasive, throw out stuff like unfairness if ok if it leads to the outcomes we want, and tell companies they need to double-down on their efforts to beat Social Equity opinions into their confused staff. The results? powerful statistics can identify patterns. The job of the Federal government is important, necessary and difficult. -> She adds that Peterson was selective with the facts And thats why the information that I publicized in Scandinavia caused a scandal that continues to reverberate. If you don't agree with their progressive politics, it must be because you're against progress, or because you're threatened by women in power. And viewers see right through it. Get it? Toronto University professor Jordan Peterson, who rose to international fame due to his opposition to mandatory gender-neutral pronouns, as well as criticism of feminism and socialism, has often referenced "feminist" Scandinavian countries as having the highest gender differences in the world, despite their commitment to equality. He claimed that the meritocracy as described in the Damore memo does not represent a radically conservative path to business success; it is merely a fresh defense of a socially acceptable version of a hostile workplace. Nevertheless, well spend a disproportionate amount of this article will explain this single line: I didnt say the gender pay gap doesnt exist. Many might think hes being horrible and unfair, but perhaps hes just spotted a chink in HRs armour Rob Briner. Take the IAT for example. In the last 50 years we are being asked to override that. None of those who commented in the piece regard him as a monster. This approach is so far from the people being marched to re-education by their employer after they have been diagnosed as racist, as Peterson described recently.. You can eradicate them with tremendous social pressure and tyranny. https://goo.gl/SQP1si, Thank you. Lets be clear: are we doing this for business or for moral reasons?. This is true, cross-culturally. Its fair to point out the flaws in the statistics. They only respond in vague generalities. If you "write a computer program, like a piece of software, like a billion people can use it," he said. That is not to say that Peterson is right, this is just what is observable and provable statistically. These two glaring omissions that the pay gap is between mothers and fathers rather than between women and men, and that the reason it exists is due to the different choices men and women make regarding work and family make the "60 Minutes" program a complete sham. TRANSCRIPT (29 mins) [00:02] Thanks for your comment Alexander, interesting stuff. Its not the average more aggressive/less agreeable male thats in prison. NewsNation - Tyler Wornell 1d. The correct figure is 1,600. https://goo.gl/D7m2a6 Article 106849 . The most extreme myth is that gender pay gap is a lie perpetuated by feminists who use statistics dishonestly to further their cause. https://goo.gl/UrK6aq 619 views, 28 likes, 0 loves, 6 comments, 22 shares, facebook watch videos from municipalidad de el tejar: jordan peterson's latest move in.volving justin tru.deau surprised everyone!. I am quite happy with this the pay-off was worth it it is not all about the money! It seems to me that these clear differences are not really that clear when you look closely at the evidence. There are less women than men going into engineering but thats up to the women deciding their own futures. That's the message Jordan Peterson tried to get across when speaking to "60 Minutes." From a consumer perspective, it's something we've known for a long time (at least in the U.S.): women control about 85% of all consumer purchasing decisions. See below for a distribution chart. Its 20 to one female nurses to male and approximately the same male engineers to female engineers, he explains. The tide is turning. But are Petersons criticisms really just skating across the surface, failing to take account of the true nature and potential of such work? Cathy Newman interviews Jordan Peterson. Another approach would be to change the nature of the job to make it more friendly to women. Request PDF | Putting Nondiscrimination into Practice: Realizing the Promise of Gender Equality Laws | Well into the twenty-first century, achieving gender equality in the economy remains . There were women going to school for engineering when I went and theyre going now. Those are in ineradicable differences. All of these traits in your [Damores] manifesto described as female are the core traits that make someone successful at engineering., The concensus view among specialists in the diversity field seems to be that Peterson is only explaining certain facets of the here and now. The gender pay gap is about comparing the wages of full-time working men and full-time working women, and working out why women earn on average $239.80 less per week than men. Heres a full list of the cabinet members, in case you want to contact them and let them know what you think. Men and women are not the same and wont be the same, but that doesnt mean women shouldnt be treated fairly., There are other reasons why equality is unattainable, Peterson explains: Many women around the age of between 28 and 32, have a career-family crisis that they have to deal with. The whole unconscious bias agenda, he says, is part of the broader corruption of social psychology. Post a job HR departments shouldnt push left wing ideological propaganda. Practitioners, he adds, need to be aware of the risk that CEOs will tune into the Canadians ideas and want to know why HR is wasting all this money. Jordan Peterson once said the market is 80% controlled by women, is this true? Professor Binna Kandola, partner at occupational psychology consultancy Pearn Kandola, goes further: Peterson has a myopic view of research and uses it selectively for his purposes.. Some employees at UBS face long-term cuts to their bonuses after maternity leave, while research by the Equality and Human Rights Commission found many British employers believe women take advantage of their pregnancy and have worrying attitudes towards unlawful behaviour when it comes to recruiting women. Tara Brown wasn't impressed. Sheila Wilds comment above (as others are ) is laughable. - Jack Blundell Gender pay gap reporting in Britain is making a difference. Jordan Peterson is a clinical psychologist, author, and speaker. Women are generally more agreeable than men and therefore do not negotiate as aggressively, leading to lower paying wages for similar jobs. About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright . https://goo.gl/fHre1a The interviewer seemed eager to impute to Peterson a belief that a large, extant wage gap between men and women is a "fact of life" that women should just "put up with," though all those. What happens if you look at sex differences in personality and interest by country? https://goo.gl/bsYhvf Just one year after completing their education, female graduates can expect to earn 1,600 less than their male peers, according to the Department for Education. Perhaps the most worrying thought is not that Damores views may be wrong but that in writing them he committed an offense worthy of dismissal. He amplifies Bhayanis point that testing without action is pointless, adding that fairness has become an important goal: Fairness means a lot. Instead, they insisted the pay gap is a result of discrimination. But Peterson noted that not only will the policy fail from an economic perspective, it dismisses male and female nature, which is "intractable." Writing in the Spectator, Kate Andrews, the associate director of the Institute of Economic Affairs, said women are bombarded with inflated statistics, cherry-picked and designed to make them feel helpless. Petersons philosophical positions informed by thinkers such as Jung, Dostoyevsky and Nietzsche have led him to question many contemporary HR policies. When broken down by age, the ONS finds the gender pay gap for full-time employees between the ages of 18 and 39 years was close to zero, but began to widen for people over the age of 40. event : evt, I dont think this article is truly representative of Peterson, as his views are far more educated than you think. If women do not try to negotiate for better pay aggressively, and are therefore not getting the pay they deserve then a gender pay gap exists. Very sad. Some health gurus and wellness instructors promoted lifestyle adjustments and self-care to prevent contracting the virus . Especially in the public service where approximately 70% of employees are women. Caryn E. Peterson, Abigail Silva, Abigail H. Goben, Natalia P. Ongtengco, . Well attempt to unpack his arguments about the gender pay gap, and the literature surrounding the gender pay gap all while attempting to keep a certain level of objectivity. Well, the traits mentioned here certainly have relevance to the success of a TEAM, but its hard to see how they specifically have to do with the discipline of engineering. Give up! And there is a major but. { But cooperation is not the core of engineering. By analogy, lets say that if you summed the average I.Q. In other words, a company can instill all the policies it wants, but it can't make people do what they don't want to do. Women are higher in negative emotion, or neuroticism. Watch on. All of these traits in your [Damores] manifesto described as female are the core traits that make someone successful at engineering. . The wage gap perception is a manifestation of hard-wired male/female differences and society would suffer in the long run if we mind-control people into believing those differences dont exist. But no matter what time I arrive or what time I leave, John is always there. Ms. Farrell is contradicting herself here. (function() { Thats why the conversation is so important. Social work and nursing are all about those. listeners: [], I heard these outsiders who came in were professing to support equities initiatives, but actually it was a ruse to get the most ideologically committed to out themselves. Its very important to remember that many choices are made at the extreme, and not the average. Where is the diversity in the public services. Jordan Peterson has had several viral clips of him discussing the gender pay or lack thereof. Thank you I am female and this is exactly my view. ); You can reduce bias by some fairly simple means: getting people to evaluate several CVs at the same time taking each criterion in turn; taking the names off CVs; when conducting appraisals setting an objective of accuracy., Another stout defence of unconscious bias work comes from Jane Farrell, chief executive of the EW Group. Using an unfair solution to create equality will cause more division. Everyone should read the full Damore memo before believing anyone on the subject. J. Andrew Dykens. But then there are comments such as this: CEOs should wake up and understand that HR is becoming an anti-capitalist fifth column in the middle of their organisations.. Knock me over with a feather. I accept that as a result I have less experience than I would have otherwise had, and therefore a lower salary. } In an interview with Channel 4s Cathy Newman, Jordan Peterson said these innate differences explained why the majority of nurses are women and the majority of engineers are men. And for both the leftists and the 3rd + 4th wave feminists the agenda is to thwart competence from the top of the list of value prioritization so that any of their irrelevant, whimsical and destructive vices can sneak in and contend that position as undetected as possible. I have seen social scientists struggle to offer a cultural explanation, but I havent heard any such hypothesis that is the least bit credible, and have been unable to formulate one myself. And why should we presume that we know how in any manner to eliminate gender identity among young children? Those who adopt this viewpoint, despite its apparent logical impossibility, maintain that we must redouble our efforts to socialize little boys and girls in exactly the same mannerrendering all toys gender-neutral, questioning even the idea of gender identity itselfand believe that such maneuvering will finally bring us to the ideal utopia, where every occupation and every strata of authority within every occupation is manned (so to speak) by 50% men and 50% women. Heres a paper, for example, indicating that more gender-equal countries produce comparatively fewer women in the STEM fields. Channel 4 News' full, fiery interview with clinical psychologist and professor Jordan B Peterson, whose views on gender have amassed great controversy - and a huge online following. That's the standard tactic of the left, especially when it comes to gender issues. Closing the pay gap "isn't a threat to men," said Thorsteinn Viglundsson, Icelands former Minister of Social Affairs and Equality. Those of you have invested years in all this PC nonsense need to start singing from a different song book. Im concerned in Australia about the unconcious bias of having HR departments almost exclusively occupied by women. Peterson habe die Gender Science" fehlreprsentiert, indem er die Belege dafr abgewiesen habe, dass das Verhltnis zwischen Gender und Biologie" nicht absolut sei. Google, like other tech firms, is acutely aware of the lack of women and people from ethnic minority backgrounds among its teams. This is a view shared by a small but vocal coalition of rightwing think tanks, Jordan Peterson, and mens rights activists. Peterson mentioned women choose lower paying careers, but gaps still exists within most industries, including 66% lower earnings for female financial specialists, and 71% smaller incomes for female doctors (when age, education, race and hours were controlled). But. Those are ineradicable differences if you leave men and women to make their own choices you will not get equal outcomes.. In fact, the subject of children and of sex differences was never broached on their part, not even once. of Asians. Weve pulled together some of the most common myths to help you navigate the pay gap deniers. Not my business: how workplace racism goes unchallenged. But these fans had nevertheless extracted from his work a view of the world that seemed to justify their behaviour. Men also choose to have children but the impact on their careers is virtually non-existent. Cathy Newman however wants to shoehorn Peterson into an extreme position. Another myth says the gender pay gap is inevitable as women choose lower-paid jobs because of fixed biological traits. To begin with, the statistic alone is misleading.